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x86 options for M class Macs?

Gang,

So I do a bunch of engineering stuff and was on an i9/32gb/1TB MacBook Pro. I read a bunch of stuff online about M class stuff but I guess not enough.

I had a VMware VM for Windows for the following stuff:

a) Altium PCB development software

b) Prism dScope III Audio Test Set (USB)

c) Other test equipment with GPIB (USB)

d) Compilers for various microcontrollers


I upgraded to an M4-MAX 36GB/1TB MacBook Pro which is really nice most of my mac programs work great. Then the migration fell apart.


I followed the VMware (version 13.6.2)instructions loaded Win11-ARM64 which surprisingly worked fine. I loaded up Altium and it works ok under the Windows x86 conversion code. Then install a couple of more apps which worked ok. Then the USB stuff.... well none of that stuff works because they all have middleware drivers which of course do not install under the Win11 ARM OS.


I am a bit stuck right now and figure that I am going to have to have 2 macs on my desk instead of one.


I figure I am probably not the only one in this boat. Suggestions?


Thanks a ton and Happy New Year to all,

Gordon

MacBook Pro 14″, macOS 15.1

Posted on Dec 31, 2024 8:59 AM

Reply
7 replies

Jan 3, 2025 2:45 PM in response to HWTech

I have Windows XP going in UTM. It runs amazingly fast. But then, it's also a very simple OS compared to Windows 10 or 11. While I can load those as Intel versions in UTM, painfully slow doesn't begin to describe how slow those OS versions are. They're basically unusable. And that's on an M4 Pro mini.


I did try the VMware, and while the ARM versions of Win 10 and 11 run at essentially the same speed as macOS, it's impossible to install an Intel version of Windows. Not even if you choose other/legacy. There you can at least select an Intel ISO of Windows, but it still won't install. Same with VirtualBox or Parallels. They won't make any attempt to install Intel Windows releases on an Mx Mac.


All of that seems rather strange since the entire purpose of a VM is to emulate a machine. UTM gives the user at least some Intel CPU emulation. Why don't the "upper class" VMs, such as Parallels and VMware?

Jan 4, 2025 12:14 PM in response to Kurt Lang

I expect they haven't found a way to make Apple ARM --> x64 microcode translation fast enough to make it worth their while. Their big selling feature is making other CPU-compatible OS run on a Mac that otherwise wouldn't.


They will probably put their support behind Microsoft developing a fully-ARM compatible Windows before trying to solve a hard problem like remapping RISC to Intel CISC microcode without unworkable overhead (or having the hypervisor pin the SoC CPUs by consuming the entire speculative pipeline).

Jan 7, 2025 12:31 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Kurt,

Thanks I loaded UTM and may try that. I did get help for some of my Microchip compilers to run on 11 and access USB. Altium is wobbling a bit so PCB may require me to hold onto my old Win7Ultimate 32b VM which will only run under VMware.

I may also try this FlexiHub app for some of the simple USB devices that are failing under Win11Arm.

I am on a 14" M4-MAX MBP 36GB/1T so Win7Ult may run ok on that but really I need to move on and get more 64b apps to work under Win11ARM64.

Gordon

Jan 7, 2025 4:36 PM in response to Gordon Rankin

In theory that would work, but it would be very architecture dependent. Modern x64 - especially Intel's - chips have so many optimized opcode extensions for SSE, MMX, etc that I'm not sure the opcode rewriting could be done effectively.


And then there is the hardware side of the chips - very different pipelining and speculative execution paths, Apple's unified memory model for the CPU, GPU and neural cores - I haven't looked that deeply but what I have seen appears almost more like a Havard model architecture.


Like I said, it is probably not impossible to do, but I can't imagine Parallels or Broadcom deciding it is economically profitable (unless some university PG does it first, like what happened with Clang)

x86 options for M class Macs?

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