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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Fix a console that underperformed

I'm fixing the Wii U. First it's important to realize the things that made the Wii successful:

-Motion controls for the new gamers
-2D games for the NES/SNES gamers
-3D games for the N64/Gamecube gamers
-The Virtual Console (and Wii Ware) for total backwards compatibility (including from other consoles like the Genesis and TG-16)
- Worse specs than the competition which kept both hardware costs down and development costs down
- A strong launch and plenty of software releases during the first 12-14 months.

A couple of other things to consider is that Nintendo had a mountain of cash reserves coming from the Wii/DS era.  However, a significant disadvantage, that they absolutely could not avoid, is that development times get slowed down when going to HD, especially for big budget games (like Mario Kart 8). 

Here is my solution:

First the system is going to be called the "Wii 2" and the tablet would not be included (for obvious reasons).  Specs would be the same as for the Wii U, except for a bigger hard drive.  (I'll explain the reason for this below.)  A Wii Motion+ controller and Nunchuck would be included.  There would only be one model with a launch price of $300 to account for the bigger hard drive.  (Whatever size hard drive would have allowed them to roughly break even at launch.)

NintendoLand and Zombie U would be scrapped.  Instead Ubisoft would make a Motion Control shooter zombie game with the Wii Zapper bundled in.  Nintendo would make Wii Sports Resort 2 and bundle it with the Wii 2.  Wii Sports Resort 2 would include 15 sports: the 5 original Wii Sports games with updated Motion+ controls, 5 of the most popular games from Wii Sports Resort with extra modes included, and 5 new sports.

The Wii U actually did have a fair amount of both 3D and 2D premium titles over it's short life, and we know from the Switch that several of these titles are actually fairly popular, so the Wii 2 would still have almost all of these titles.  However, the Wii U had a big problem with software droughts in between major releases.  Therefore the Wii 2 would need to have several more smaller budget motion control titles to fill in the gaps, games like WarioWare or Rhythm Heaven, especially in the first 12 months.  They would rerelease Skyward Sword with updated visuals at launch both to have another game and to signal they are sticking with Motion+.  In the first 12 months they could reuse assets from Skyward Sword to release a Zelda spinoff game that focused on Swordplay and Archery in dungeons with mechanics from Wii Sports Resort, but they could keep development time short by having little/no overworld exploration or acquiring items.  Just focus on Swordplay and Archery in dungeons.  Also, Nintendo would have contracted some third party developers to release motion control games like a new DDR every year that could be used either with a DDR mat or the Wii balance board. 

However, the biggest solution the software drought problem would have been the massive expansion of the Virtual Console.  This is also the reason why the Wii 2 would need a big hard drive.  First, Gamecube games would be added to the VC at a price of $15.  Several would have been available at launch with the rest of the first party Gamecube games added throughout the Wii 2's life, and many third party Gamecube games as well.  Sega would also be able to add in their Saturn and Dreamcast games for $10/$15 respectively.  Additionally third party publishers could put their PS1/PS2 games on there for $10/$15 respectively.  This would make the Wii 2 the ultimate retro console having access to every Nintendo and Sega game and many third party games from generation 6 and earlier.  This worked great for the Wii and it would work even better for the Wii 2, because of the number of systems included.

So basically, the Wii 2 would have been successful over the Wii U by focusing on motion controls over the gamepad and by greatly expanding the Virtual Console.  Keep all of the other releases the same.  This would be plenty of games to keep both the new Wii gamers as well as older gamers happy in between major Nintendo releases.  If they got the first 12 months of the Wii 2 right, especially, then their Wii developers would have made a similar amount of games for the Wii 2, and the console would have been a very successful system.



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curl-6 said:
Wman1996 said:

The issue is that GameCube hardware was more or less finalized a full year before launch. By that timeline, Nintendo could've bucked orthodoxy and manufactured enough of them to get it out in Japan by late 2000 and other regions in the first half of 2001. 

But the extra issue there is that the games weren't there. GameCube would've been pretty barren in the software department if it launched any earlier than it did in real life. There's no evidence Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Wave Race, or Rogue Squadron were done before Autumn 2001. And Sakurai and his team seemed to be working down to the wire for Super Smash Bros. Melee's 13 month development cycle. 

Enhanced ports of more N64 games than we actually got would've been possible but tricky. It would've been amazing to get a steady port of Majora's Mask and some other late N64 games. Again, keep in mind that Nintendo rarely does cross-gen games now or even back then. 

Nintendo could've and should've pumped out the resources to get GameCube software and hardware out a full year before it did in real life to beat Xbox to the punch and launch not super long after PS2. But again, hindsight is 20/20. 

As part of "fixing" it I'd make it so Nintendo is better organized on the software front so that their key games are ready on time, as opposed to historically.

Hindsight is indeed 20/20, true, but that's sort of the point of the thread, we are using what we now know to suggest solutions to past problems. I feel like the issues the Gamecube faced could have been recognized and solved at the time and aren't dependent on 2024 knowledge.

I feel Gamecube is one of those you have to fix N64 to start fixing Gamecube. One big thing PS2 had going for it was BC. Not to mention when PS2 launched in Japan it was the best selling DVD player along with copies of The Matrix.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

As part of "fixing" it I'd make it so Nintendo is better organized on the software front so that their key games are ready on time, as opposed to historically.

Hindsight is indeed 20/20, true, but that's sort of the point of the thread, we are using what we now know to suggest solutions to past problems. I feel like the issues the Gamecube faced could have been recognized and solved at the time and aren't dependent on 2024 knowledge.

I feel Gamecube is one of those you have to fix N64 to start fixing Gamecube. One big thing PS2 had going for it was BC. Not to mention when PS2 launched in Japan it was the best selling DVD player along with copies of The Matrix.

Agreed. Without fixing the N64 out of the gate, even a fixed GameCube still has a ceiling in the high 40-million-unit range like the SNES. And maybe that is too optimistic of a ceiling. 

N64 had the image of being kiddy and high prices for games with a weird controller. But still, local multiplayer and first-party titles got some love. 

PS1 had the image of a console for just about everyone. There were more games (though admittedly more shovelware), more games for teens and adults, and a better controller.

PS2 was going off of a stellar reputation and brand, in the home console space Nintendo wasn't when going into GameCube. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 40 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

PS3 I feel could have given Nintendo a run for their money if they'd made it more affordable from the start, brought in their killer games earlier, dumped the Cell and gone with hardware that was easier to develop for, and fixed their awful 2005/6 marketing and PR.

Wii probably would have still won by a hair, but it would have been close.

Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

As part of "fixing" it I'd make it so Nintendo is better organized on the software front so that their key games are ready on time, as opposed to historically.

Hindsight is indeed 20/20, true, but that's sort of the point of the thread, we are using what we now know to suggest solutions to past problems. I feel like the issues the Gamecube faced could have been recognized and solved at the time and aren't dependent on 2024 knowledge.

I feel Gamecube is one of those you have to fix N64 to start fixing Gamecube. One big thing PS2 had going for it was BC. Not to mention when PS2 launched in Japan it was the best selling DVD player along with copies of The Matrix.

I think Gamecube could have potentially outsold the N64 if Nintendo had played their cards right, even with the baggage they inherited from their 5th gen stumbles. If Gamecube also played DVDs, didn't give PS2 such a head start, looked more "cool" and had a better software lineup, it may not have won the generation but I think it could have grown over N64, by virtue of being a more viable alternative. 



Sega Saturn.

Solutions:
- Don't make the 32X, all of the games made for it would then have been more technically impressive Saturn launch titles. Enough of them to build momentum.

- Release Virtua Fighter Remix directly instead of a flawed VF port (this would have totally been possible since VF remix was out in Japan when Saturn launched in EU and NA)

- Don't rush development of games like Daytona USA. Daytona USA was a legendary arcade game and would have ripped games like Ridge Racer to shreds if the port was polished and included a multiplayer mode.

- Release at $300 (because of Sony, Sega was forced to drop it's $400 price tag quickly anyway, so might as well have started there and kept the goodwill from consumers)

- Don't do the surprise launch bullshit.

- Make Panzer Dragoon the pack-in game with every console (Saturn would have been seen as a strong 3D machine from day one instead of the rumors that it was bad at 3D)

- Make an ambitious 2D Sonic 4 first, and leave the 3D entry for when the developers are more familiar with the hardware.



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Interetingly enough, to fix the 32X the solution would have been to not make the saturn. (until, like 1996 or later)
Both were good ideas that were completely unable to coexist in the same timeline.



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras said:

Interetingly enough, to fix the 32X the solution would have been to not make the saturn. (until, like 1996 or later)
Both were good ideas that were completely unable to coexist in the same timeline.

I feel like it'd be better to just drop the 32X; waiting until 1996 to release the Saturn would kill the system even worse than historically as the PS1 would have way too much of a head start and would have entrenched itself so thoroughly that Saturn would be DOA.

Your scenario above, skipping the 32X, is probably the Saturn's best shot.



killer7 said:
Jumpin said:

I live in a universe where I didn't say the 3DS was a flop. But, likely one where either you were drunk/high when you posted.

When you're sober, re-read my damn post!

I am sorry if my post sounded offensive. The 3DS was not Nintendo's most sucessfull system but i would not call a system a flop, that lasted 10 years,sold 76 million and outsold its competition 4:1. Of course there where better handhelds. Everyone with some logic agrees over that. 

Your post doesn't sound offensive. Daft, yes. Especially considering you came in there asking in what universe I live in where your straw man argument is actually true?

If I need to make it more clear for you, I didn't say the 3DS was a flop; you literally just made that up.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

KungKras said:

Sega Saturn.

Solutions:
- Don't make the 32X, all of the games made for it would then have been more technically impressive Saturn launch titles. Enough of them to build momentum.

- Release Virtua Fighter Remix directly instead of a flawed VF port (this would have totally been possible since VF remix was out in Japan when Saturn launched in EU and NA)

- Don't rush development of games like Daytona USA. Daytona USA was a legendary arcade game and would have ripped games like Ridge Racer to shreds if the port was polished and included a multiplayer mode.

- Release at $300 (because of Sony, Sega was forced to drop it's $400 price tag quickly anyway, so might as well have started there and kept the goodwill from consumers)

- Don't do the surprise launch bullshit.

- Make Panzer Dragoon the pack-in game with every console (Saturn would have been seen as a strong 3D machine from day one instead of the rumors that it was bad at 3D)

- Make an ambitious 2D Sonic 4 first, and leave the 3D entry for when the developers are more familiar with the hardware.

"The Sega CD had its place in history. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a piece of s***. But it had a certain appeal. The 32X is the real deal. It sucks. Oh, God, it sucks." - Angry Video Game Nerd

He may be a character and not a serious critic, but AVGN nailed the perception of 32X quite well. Sega CD had some innovations for an add-on for a mainstream console and had some famous titles like Sonic CD.

32X was just pointless with Saturn on the way. And it's so bizarre to go from a CD add-on for Mega Drive back to a cartridge add-on all while a CD-based console is about to come out.

And Sonic was so popular that a 2D Sonic game exclusive to Saturn would've helped. Perhaps if Saturn with a 2D Sonic game and the other changes was more successful, we would've gotten a 3D Sonic game around 1997, and Adventure wouldn't need to happen until 1999 or 2000 globally as the second 3D Sonic game.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 40 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Wman1996 said:
KungKras said:

Sega Saturn.

Solutions:
- Don't make the 32X, all of the games made for it would then have been more technically impressive Saturn launch titles. Enough of them to build momentum.

- Release Virtua Fighter Remix directly instead of a flawed VF port (this would have totally been possible since VF remix was out in Japan when Saturn launched in EU and NA)

- Don't rush development of games like Daytona USA. Daytona USA was a legendary arcade game and would have ripped games like Ridge Racer to shreds if the port was polished and included a multiplayer mode.

- Release at $300 (because of Sony, Sega was forced to drop it's $400 price tag quickly anyway, so might as well have started there and kept the goodwill from consumers)

- Don't do the surprise launch bullshit.

- Make Panzer Dragoon the pack-in game with every console (Saturn would have been seen as a strong 3D machine from day one instead of the rumors that it was bad at 3D)

- Make an ambitious 2D Sonic 4 first, and leave the 3D entry for when the developers are more familiar with the hardware.

"The Sega CD had its place in history. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a piece of s***. But it had a certain appeal. The 32X is the real deal. It sucks. Oh, God, it sucks." - Angry Video Game Nerd

He may be a character and not a serious critic, but AVGN nailed the perception of 32X quite well. Sega CD had some innovations for an add-on for a mainstream console and had some famous titles like Sonic CD.

32X was just pointless with Saturn on the way. And it's so bizarre to go from a CD add-on for Mega Drive back to a cartridge add-on all while a CD-based console is about to come out.

And Sonic was so popular that a 2D Sonic game exclusive to Saturn would've helped. Perhaps if Saturn with a 2D Sonic game and the other changes was more successful, we would've gotten a 3D Sonic game around 1997, and Adventure wouldn't need to happen until 1999 or 2000 globally as the second 3D Sonic game.

While SCD doesn't hold a candle in terms of software to the amazing PCE CD. SCD had a lot of great stuff. Android Assault. Robo Aleste. Popful Mail. Snatcher. Lunar 1-2. Just to name a few. tbh Sonic CD isn't very good.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!