Needed: a moonshot mindset

Gavin Allen: How would you define a net-zero city?

Massamba Thioye: A net-zero city has reduced its Global Greenhouse Gas (GHG) emissions as much as possible; the GHG emissions it has not been able to reduce are offset by the removal of CO₂ from the atmosphere.

Unfortunately, there is no definition of a net-zero city shared by everybody. But the ISO [International Standards Organization] has developed a guideline that is currently being turned into a standard. It is an ongoing work.

Gavin Allen: Technology is vital to achieving net-zero cities. How can we accelerate that contribution?

Massamba Thioye: Digital technology will play an important role. The most transformative type of climate and sustainability actions in cities are enabled by digital technology.

For example, the shift to electric vehicles. This has to be done. But we should ask, “Why do we need cars in the first place?” The answer is, we need cars for mobility. Then, we can ask the next question, “Can we leverage innovation to address the need for mobility with fewer cars?” If we use GPS and other technologies for land use planning and site selection, we can build a “15-minute city,” where most products and services are within walking or biking distance.

By doing this, we disrupt the need for motorized transportation. For example, e-learning can replace trips to school; e-health can replace trips to the hospital; and digital city services can replace a trip to the town hall. But this is only possible if you have connectivity.

This reduces the need to build infrastructure. In the West, that infrastructure is already in place. But in the Global South, the needed infrastructure is not yet built. This means the Global South will develop differently from the Global North. It will need to leapfrog, using deeply digital technology, particularly connectivity. That's why connectivity should be made available everywhere, to everyone, in the Global South.

Gavin Allen: So, partnerships between policymakers and tech companies such as Huawei will vary, depending on what part of the world they're in. But they’re still crucial.

Massamba Thioye: Definitely. We need partnership because we need innovative policy instruments, innovative financial instruments, and an innovative cooperative approach among and within nations, so that we can deploy at scale these digital technologies that are very much needed for the development of the Global South. That way, we leapfrog, and do not follow the same development pathway of the Global North.

Gavin Allen: You participated in a number of forums at COP29 in Baku. There were a lot of agreements and commitments. Will there be enough concrete action?

Massamba Thioye: We have two problems. First, we have a problem of ambition: our commitments are not ambitious enough. Second, those commitments have not been fully implemented. So, we have problems of ambition and implementation.

To a large extent, this is because we do not have a moonshot mindset. Most of the time, we set goals based on our understanding of what is possible. Most decision-makers look at technologies that are already available, policies that are already implemented, and financial instruments that already exist. And on the basis of that, they set their goals and targets.

This is wrong. Goals and targets should be set, not on the basis of what is possible, but of what is needed.

Gavin Allen: Are you confident that sustainable development will happen, that cities will get to net-zero? Or is there still a gap?

Massamba Thioye:I believe we will get there, but it will require re-inventing everything: our industry, our economy, our society – and, more importantly, reinventing ourselves. This is where we need to put a lot of effort into building the leadership of tomorrow. That will be a caring leadership, a sharing leadership, and a daring leadership.