"They know which buttons to press"

Gavin Allen: Are you optimistic about the progress toward zero-carbon cities to date?

Mohan Munasinghe: Yes. It's difficult to make progress at the national level: world leaders are great at promising things, but the delivery is rather poor.

In cities, though, I have found much greater progress, in the sense that mayors, community leaders and others are much more closely in touch with their people. They know their needs; they know which buttons to press to get things done. And, if they are visionary enough, they can convince the people to find solutions.

Gavin Allen: And are they pressing those buttons in sufficient numbers?

Mohan Munasinghe: In a few cities and it's growing. I'm working with cities now, and I find it much more productive than in the past. That's the positive side. The negative side is that it's still extremely slow.

Gavin Allen: For the cities that aren’t going fast enough, what’s holding them back?

Mohan Munasinghe: Some very large cities are already locked in. They have a lot of existing infrastructure – essentially brownfield sites, which are difficult to retrofit.

In some of the smaller cities, as well as those in the developing world, where new infrastructure is coming in, the population is growing, which also has a negative side. But at least there is room for change, room for maneuver. On the geopolitical side, there’s the emergence of the BRICS: Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

I think we have now a different paradigm for growth and development, which will probably be more sustainable, and will fit in with the low-carbon, sustainable cities.

Gavin Allen: And what do we do to persuade critical stakeholders to embrace digital technology more quickly?

Mohan Munasinghe: First, we have to convince them about sustainability. In a sense, if you talk about a clean environment, a livable city, a social and culturally balanced city, which also has economic opportunities, you create a kind of a vision.

And then you say, "By the way, digital technology can help you achieve all of these things." Otherwise people get a bit turned off.  And this is the job of the city mayor, the community leaders, and others: to lead the way, if they are enlightened enough.

Of course, there are risks, but then it is up to the policymakers and the planners to take care of the risk. Because certainly from the economic side, we can have productivity and other things. But there's also the inequality aspect. Because if it only brings prosperity to the elites and so on, that's not good enough.

So the environmental side, certainly, with more efficient resource use, will reduce energy use and carbon emissions. It's good for the environment. But you have then the problem of e-waste and other things, computers and mobile phones, and one has to dispose of those.

In other words, you have to show the benefits to people, but avoid the risks. Then, you can get the acceptance to move forward. Plus, you can start with certain key cities, which are kind of the role models, and the other cities will say, "Hey, they did that. Why don't we do it, too?"

Pick some of the cities in previous years and you will find particular solutions, but in certain areas like transport or energy management and so on, there are these examples not only of very large cities, but also medium-sized cities. And don't forget, there are many more medium-sized cities in the world, 100 times more than large cities.

Gavin Allen: For those cities that aren't sure where to start or aren't confident, they should get out there and learn, because there's plenty to view?

Mohan Munasinghe: Absolutely. And small may be beautiful, because you have room to learn. You have room to expand and so on. Do the things that are possible. Small and medium-sized cities are also more manageable.